Fiona (Professor of International Relations at SOAS) and Kelly (Associate Professor at Tufts and Senior Researcher at MIT) have known each other for over twenty years, thanks to a shared interest in migration issues and International Relations. A few years ago the two decided to start a collaborative project that will build a dataset of organised forced migration from a comparative and historical perspective. Their project introduces a new typology of forced migration that considers it from an IR and geopolitical perspective, rather than the familiar approach that considers cases in isolation, focusing exclusively on dynamics on the ground and ethnic hatred. A comparative and historical perspective allows us to see great commonalities amongst different cases, they argue. In this conversation, recorded on 24 April 2024, Ozan Ozavci asks Fiona and Kelly about their project; how it originated and what its goals are, as well as how they situate the ‘Lausanne Moment’ in their analysis of forced migration. Was Lausanne just another case in the long history of organised forced migration and population transfers?

Fiona and Kelly have published their preliminary findings on how forced migration was used as a diplomatic transactional tool, how migration deals prioritize political self-interest over refugee protection, and how its defining logics factor in Palestine, where almost two million people have been forcibly displaced, and more than 35,000 reportedly killed since October 7, 2023.

Episode 52 – Out of Home

Podcasts are published by TLP for the purpose of encouraging informed debate on the legacies of the events surrounding the Lausanne Conference. The views expressed by participants do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of TLP, its partners, convenors or members.

COVER IMAGE: PYOTR NIKOLAYEVICH GRUZINSKY, THE ABANDONMENT OF THE VILLAGE BY THE MOUNTAINEERS AS THE RUSSIAN TROOPS APPROACHED, C. 1872